However, I'm not saying their arguments are invalid because they have a bunch of loons in their ranks, I'm just saying - they have a LOT of loons in their ranks and the rest of my blog makes the case that their arguments are invalid because they are wrong in every way - they are illogical, they are riddled with factual errors that are so grotesque they border on flat out lies, and they are grossly under researched and ignore many obvious explanations.
Their machinations remind me very much of the Flintstones...
They have the wheels but push the extra weight of the car with their feet and their story is the same epic failures repeated over and over.
This is a relatively short review of the EIGHT HOUR 'debate' *cough* which mainly involves two Flat Earthers whom I will dub as Anger Management Fred (aka MrPonchoPete) - pictured here in his common mode of communication - screaming, near aneurysm...
and iPhone Optics "Curvature Detector" Barney (aka Steven)
To be fair, there are a few other Flat Earthers who are more reasonable on the call as well but don't seem to talk much (also to be fair, I couldn't bear to listen to the whole 8 hours).
Here is the video in all its glory - WARNING: do not try to play any Flat Earth drinking game with this video [apparently they took it down now].
There are also a few "Globe Earthers" in the chat with the main players being 'Red' of the Reds Rhetoric YouTube channel and Richard, and a few other voices of Reason. I suppose I'm biased on that point, so be it.
Steven seems to think that his iPhone attached to some binoculars are superior optics to professional gear so, with his infallible iPhone bioptics in hand, asserts (13:52) "and that Sun, DOES change size, sorry".
What the HELL are "full optics"? lol - they go on about that a bit around this point. They are cheap binoculars and an iPhone camera. Compare that with the rigs Thierry Legault uses [YouTube, www.astrophoto.fr].
But even screaming Anger Management Fred, MrPonchoPete, admits the size of the apparent Solar Disc doesn't change size (17:38) - he just doesn't think it proves anything because he thinks the Sun "could go back and forth across it (like this) wouldn't even have to go around it because of the magnification itself" and magically the "Dome" would make it appear EXACTLY as if it's going around the Earth "due to assumed mass" and "because of it's angular distance".
He's using terms that don't even make sense like 'angular distance'?
Red presents his hard photographic evidence after this point so you can watch fora few minutes to see his images of the Sun taken throughout a day, and all are the same size photographically (in reality the Noon Day sun would be almost immeasurably the smallest, but less than a pixel).
MrPonchoPete says he is "going back to ancient knowledge" but then when Richard says:
Richard: "what I didn't do was include the Dome, so I'll I'll, change my statement and say that what the experiment proves is that, without a dome, if the sun takes that circle, we've proven that you can't take two different sides with this experiment, if there is a dome...."
MrPonchoPete: you haven't proven anything because you can't second guess, it's been 500 years guys... it's been 500 years. I agree with Red the Sun does not change size.
Richard: Not proving anything to you.... it's not 500 years they proved the Earth was round 800 years before Christ.
MrPonchoPete: really? I I On a guess.. Again you're going on ASSUMED trigonometry...
Richard & Red: Assumed trigonometry?
MrPonchoPete: It's not the real deal. No it's not, because you're triangulating on a ball, so it's assumed
Red [interjecting]: hang on
MrPonchoPete: you assumed you're on a ball...
Red: [...] What about the trigonometry was assumed? Let's start there, what about it was assumed though?
MrPonchoPete: what do you mean what about it, well if you're assuming you're on a Ball and you've got no proof of it, and you've got MASS assuming you're on a ball as well then you've got two negatives making a positive in your mind.
#1 what does MASS have to do with it at this point? They just toss this nonsense around without much understanding.
#2 then this complete drivel about "then you've got two negatives making a positive in your mind". LOL - it's just rambling nonsense with ZERO understanding about the underlying facts.
#3 apparently MrPonchoPete doesn't ACTUALLY think much of "ancient knowledge" and also doesn't know much about it and he's WRONG that they ASSUMED anything.
There were many ways they KNEW that the sun was distant - the angle to the Sun changes with distance but it DOES NOT change in the same way a parallax angle would change - which I cover Ad nauseam in my post here. Over smaller distance of a few hundred miles the angular shift is very small which would not be the case for a nearby Sun - but over greater and greater distance the angles shift EXACTLY AS IF you are on a near Sphere. This is observed with the Sun, the Moon, Polaris, mountains, everything shows the Earth curving off in every direction just about equally.
So it wasn't ASSUMED at all -- it was measured very carefully even in great antiquity and from THERE you can use trigonometry to draw other conclusions.
He kicked the wheels off his own non-functional car!
You really have to watch the sequence to see just how insane this guy is. And this is him being REASONABLE - just wait...
Next up Red talks about Eratosthenes and how he measured the curvature already knowing that the (near) constant solar disc indicated a distant sun. At which point we enjoy another rant...
MrPonchoPete: THEIR NOT EVEN ON THE SAME LATITUDE [sic, I assume he meant longitude] THE TWO POLES WEREN'T EVEN IN A STRAIGHT LINE RED, DON'T GIVE ME THAT ONE WAS LIKE 500 MILES TO THE LEFT OF IT HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT... ASSUMED... YOU GOTTA HAVE BETTER THAN THAT DUDE.
Much screaming - I've already made the points above so I'll let the sane readers be the judge of it all but it is safe to say that AT THIS POINT we're not assuming anything. The assumptions have been checked and checked and checked and rechecked MILLIONS of times now even if Eratosthenes himself lacked sufficiently strong evidence in his time.
MrPonchoPete then continues his tirad a bit and finally Richard asks...
Richard: What was the evidence that brought the "truth" to you.
MrPonchoPete: I'm not spinnin'
Steven: Where is the curvature and what's up with the antarctic [no 24 hour daylight]
All three claims are arguments from ignorance on their face, never mind they are easily debunked.
MrPonchoPete then goes on a rant at (28:39) because one thing an ego cannot handle is not getting his way...
MrPonchoPete: SHUT UP DICK... JUST SHUT UP... SHUT UP YOU WANKER... LET ME SPEAK TO RED... I'M GONNA... EWWW YOU FUCKIN TIT, NOTHINGS CHANGED YOU'RE STILL A CUNT
MrPonchoPete then continues his story about how he didn't rip Red's friend a new one because he just happened to click on a part of a video where Red's friend was talking about having Gynecomastia. Whooo the Holy Spirit moves in truly mysterious ways...
MrPonchoPete alleges this Gynecomastia was due to a vaccine.
A bit after this is where MrPonchoPete really looses it because Red says that isn't exactly life threatening. Red tries to redirect back to the curvature of the Earth but MrPonchoPete isn't having any...
MrPonchoPete: NO I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CURVATURE ON YOUR FRIENDS CHEST. THE DISEASE THEY'VE GIVEN HIM. I'M TALKIN ABOUT THAT RED. THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH RED.
MrPonchoPete: MAAAAAAN BOOOOOOOOOBS [29:34]
He just about blows his gasket at 30:50
We continue the vaccine / Flat Earth mix...
MrPonchoPete: IT'S ALL THE SAME THING, THE DISEASES, IT'S ALL THE SAME THING TO DO WITH THE FLAT EARTH.
MrPonchoPete: YOU CANT PROVE TO ME THAT ANY OF THESE DISEASES WERE HERE MORE THAN 150 YEARS AGO ... FLAT EARTH IS EVERYTHING RED
Even Steven is like "whoa dude" at that point.
Calmer heads prevail for a while and they talk about a few subjects without much progress...
Steven and Red talk about the image of the sailboat that Red took but OF COURSE Steven says it's a fake - Red knows it isn't. Their 'fake detection' skills are called out. Steven then whips out his binocs again and asserts they prove otherwise. No evidence is presented supporting Steven's claim. Steven admits he cannot prove the photo is photo-shopped.
MrPonchoPete tosses out that boats going over the horizon "aren't tilted". Same old nonsense. Red explains. MrPonchoPete explodes into a rant (shocking right).
Red tries to explain the "Law of Perspective". Steven almost gets it while MrPonchoPete just randomly screams inanities.
Some talk of Theodolites.
MrPonchoPete: I've got a question for you Red. How do you explain the boundary conditions [garbled] of stays on whilst the vacuum of space don't rip it off all at spinnin speeds, I want you to explain the boundary conditions of how that happens please
Red: boundary conditions of what again
MrPonchoPete: how the oxygen, our air, the aether, our air, stays on the spinning ball at 1000 mph, how a rocket leaves the spinning Earth at 1000 mph and into absolute nothing. I want you to explain how all that happens, I want you to explain how the airs stays on the spinning ball.
Red: Ok, so the air stays on the spinning ball BECAUSE GRAVITY you...
MrPonchoPete: OH YEAH GRAVITY AN APPLE FELL OUT OF A TREE A FUCKIN APPLE FELL OUT OF A TREE. DUH
Well -- here is my fuller explanation which also talks about escape velocities and other modes of atmospheric escape. Of course the answer is some of our atmosphere does escape but not enough to be a problem (yet). Over many millions of years it will be a problem. But yes, gravity.
And of course we know buoyancy doesn't work without gravity as I've shown before.
That's all I can take for now.
If you need your dose of forehead slaps and head desks for the day dig in!
So Meet the Flintstones - your Flat Earthers.
If that's not enough Flat Earth Insanity for one day you can watch these other prominent Flat Earthers talking about literally drinking their own pee. I am NOT transcribing that one.